As someone learning German right now, I guess it’s hard to argue with relative terms but I find the German language to be built with a ton of traps and abnormalities for seemingly no explicable reason.
For instance we conjugate every verb but we maintain the subject, unlike in Spanish where we would conjugate and drop the subject. I don’t see any reason why we would do that except to make the language less efficient and more obtuse.
That being said, it hasn’t been too hard and I agree with the general sentiment that learning any language is a good hobby to have so I don’t want to discourage anyone.
From my German perspective I often think the same about time forms in other languages. For conversations you can for the most part get by knowing the present tense and the “Perfekt” past tense. The other forms are important to know down the line but in day to day German those are the one’s you’ll hear the most. And then there’s English. Simple Present, Present Progressive, Simple Past, Past Progressive, Present Perfect, Present Perfect Progressive, Past Perfect, Past Perfect Progressive, Will-Future, Going to-Future, Future Progressive, Future Perfect, Future Perfect Progressive. And apart from maybe 3 or 4 they’re all in daily use.
Most “tenses” in English are not about tense, but about aspects like perfective, progressive, intentive or stative.
In German we use modal particles and auxillary words to express aspects and modality. The “classic” tenses we learn at school are an artificial grammar modelled after latin, not the grammar we use in everyday life. The grammar of actual spoken German is far richer than the school grammar.
Especially modality is a nemesis for German learners, as most languages to not implement modality. Modal particles are these tiny words like aber, auch, bloß, denn, dann, noch, doch, eben, eigentlich, etwa, halt, ja, mal, nur, schon, vielleicht, wohl, and more, that are strewn around almost every sentence
Just try to translate ich mach’ das aber|auch|doch|eben|halt|ja|mal|nur noch|schon|dann wohl into English or explain the difference in meaning.
The “classic” tenses we learn at school are an artificial grammar modelled after latin, not the grammar we use in everyday life. The grammar of actual spoken German is far richer than the school grammar.
This is definitely something that has left me confused. My past comments have been replied to with the explanation that written German is so precise but verbal German, because of the lack of precise tenses, often leaves me having to make assumptions. I chalk it up to my elementary understanding of German, but you explaining the difference a bit helped me pin point what I mean.
German isn’t overly precise to be honest. It’s kind of a “primal” language. We use a tiny active vocabulary and juggle it around to mean completely different things (that’s probably a thing a beginner will struggle with, every word in a sentence could potentially be a context clue that changes the entire meaning). English for example has way more unique words. Often texts become noticeably shorter if translated from German to English. I think that rules out precision 😅
Don’t worry about the formalities too much. Read lots of German, listen to lots of German, try to find people to speak German with, and it’ll come to you naturally. Especially don’t try to be too perfect. Spoken German is way more lax than the rules for written German. High German, as it is written and taught, barely exists out there as a spoken language in its pure form. The German language area has a plethora of different regional dialects, which will sneak into the spoken German of even the most fervent formal high German speaker.
I recommend Sachgeschichten from “Sendung mit der Maus”. It’s a kids show that explanes the world and how stuff is made. The advantage here is that you can see what is happening while it’s being explaned in simple vocabulary. Also it’s really interesting.
I don’t know if I’d say I’m complaining, and I’m definitely not rating the languages against each other. But to be clear German also has variable pronunciation and loan-in words that are pronounced differently. They also have dialects and I have struggled to get consensus on several language related topics with small groups of native speakers before - so like… It is for sure random in many ways, including pronunciation.
Again, no issue with the language any more or less than others. I personally all wish we could like scientifically conlang our way into a less obtuse communication medium. But I’m also a DM so like of course I would like someone to make a conlang for humanity :D
As someone learning German right now, I guess it’s hard to argue with relative terms but I find the German language to be built with a ton of traps and abnormalities for seemingly no explicable reason.
For instance we conjugate every verb but we maintain the subject, unlike in Spanish where we would conjugate and drop the subject. I don’t see any reason why we would do that except to make the language less efficient and more obtuse.
That being said, it hasn’t been too hard and I agree with the general sentiment that learning any language is a good hobby to have so I don’t want to discourage anyone.
From my German perspective I often think the same about time forms in other languages. For conversations you can for the most part get by knowing the present tense and the “Perfekt” past tense. The other forms are important to know down the line but in day to day German those are the one’s you’ll hear the most. And then there’s English. Simple Present, Present Progressive, Simple Past, Past Progressive, Present Perfect, Present Perfect Progressive, Past Perfect, Past Perfect Progressive, Will-Future, Going to-Future, Future Progressive, Future Perfect, Future Perfect Progressive. And apart from maybe 3 or 4 they’re all in daily use.
Most “tenses” in English are not about tense, but about aspects like perfective, progressive, intentive or stative.
In German we use modal particles and auxillary words to express aspects and modality. The “classic” tenses we learn at school are an artificial grammar modelled after latin, not the grammar we use in everyday life. The grammar of actual spoken German is far richer than the school grammar.
Especially modality is a nemesis for German learners, as most languages to not implement modality. Modal particles are these tiny words like aber, auch, bloß, denn, dann, noch, doch, eben, eigentlich, etwa, halt, ja, mal, nur, schon, vielleicht, wohl, and more, that are strewn around almost every sentence
Just try to translate ich mach’ das aber|auch|doch|eben|halt|ja|mal|nur noch|schon|dann wohl into English or explain the difference in meaning.
That’s a very good point
This is definitely something that has left me confused. My past comments have been replied to with the explanation that written German is so precise but verbal German, because of the lack of precise tenses, often leaves me having to make assumptions. I chalk it up to my elementary understanding of German, but you explaining the difference a bit helped me pin point what I mean.
German isn’t overly precise to be honest. It’s kind of a “primal” language. We use a tiny active vocabulary and juggle it around to mean completely different things (that’s probably a thing a beginner will struggle with, every word in a sentence could potentially be a context clue that changes the entire meaning). English for example has way more unique words. Often texts become noticeably shorter if translated from German to English. I think that rules out precision 😅
That’s how I felt/feel, but couldn’t/can’t refute a native speaker because I just don’t know enough. Thanks for the comments!
Sure. Feel free to ask if there’s anything else. I could chat about languages all day 😄
Don’t worry about the formalities too much. Read lots of German, listen to lots of German, try to find people to speak German with, and it’ll come to you naturally. Especially don’t try to be too perfect. Spoken German is way more lax than the rules for written German. High German, as it is written and taught, barely exists out there as a spoken language in its pure form. The German language area has a plethora of different regional dialects, which will sneak into the spoken German of even the most fervent formal high German speaker.
I recommend Sachgeschichten from “Sendung mit der Maus”. It’s a kids show that explanes the world and how stuff is made. The advantage here is that you can see what is happening while it’s being explaned in simple vocabulary. Also it’s really interesting.
Oh! Vielen Dank! This is exactly the kind of content I’m looking for.
Oh yes, definitely. Die Sendung mit der Maus is a national treasure.
Much appreciated. I’ll do my best! I want to be here for life, so I need to learn.
Absolutely this. However all the different forms of dialects may cause additional confusion if you care about learning how to write German correctly.
Don’t complain about perceived randomness in German grammar when you come from a language with random pronunciation 😃
I don’t know if I’d say I’m complaining, and I’m definitely not rating the languages against each other. But to be clear German also has variable pronunciation and loan-in words that are pronounced differently. They also have dialects and I have struggled to get consensus on several language related topics with small groups of native speakers before - so like… It is for sure random in many ways, including pronunciation.
Again, no issue with the language any more or less than others. I personally all wish we could like scientifically conlang our way into a less obtuse communication medium. But I’m also a DM so like of course I would like someone to make a conlang for humanity :D