• plyth@feddit.org
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    1 day ago

    I know the arguments. They sound reasonable. But if people get a year of vacation for making a baby, and they don’t make a baby every other year then something is really bad about rising children.

    • CAVOK@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      You think having a newborn is a “vacation”? Oh dear.

      Having a baby is risky for a woman, physically, financially, emotionally. Perhaps the outlook of the world isn’t great either. Combine that with women realising that they have choices, that they don’t have to have children, and you get the decline.

      • plyth@feddit.org
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        5 hours ago

        physically, financially, emotionally

        So the latter two can still be improved.

        outlook of the world isn’t great either.

        My argument

        Immigration allows the elite to avoid the consequences of their bad politics. If living conditions were good enough people would have children.

        I don’t mind better politics or living conditions, but look at the nordics. Best places in the world to have a kid and we still can’t manage to have 2 kids per couple.

        • CAVOK@lemmy.world
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          4 hours ago

          So the latter two can still be improved.

          All three are vastly superior in most of the west compared to most of Africa, yet women in most, if not all, African countries have more kids than western women. Do you honestly think that’s because they’re happier? Women in Afghanistan have more babies than women in the nordics. Do you think it’s better to be a women in Afghanistan?

          My argument

          Your argument makes no sense. Living standards are abhorrent in Afghanistan and fantastic in the nordics, generally speaking. It’s not about the living standards.

          • plyth@feddit.org
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            4 hours ago

            Do you think it’s better to be a women in Afghanistan?

            No. But if you give women the choice you have to create the conditions that having a baby is the best option.

            It’s not about the living standards.

            It is, if you give women the choice.

            • CAVOK@lemmy.world
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              4 hours ago

              No. But if you give women the choice you have to create the conditions that having a baby is the best option.

              Assuming the freedom to choose, I don’t think those conditions exist. I think that people that want children will have them, and people that don’t won’t. I think the new normal is a lower nativity.

              It is, if you give women the choice.

              In countries where women get to choose, nativity goes down. In Bangladesh the nativity dropped with improved living standards. There’s a great video about it.

              • plyth@feddit.org
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                4 hours ago

                I think that people that want children will have them, and people that don’t won’t.

                Why should there be a fixed border? Improve material and emotional conditions for families and that border will shift.

                In countries where women get to choose, nativity goes down.

                Conditions in Sweden are best and still not good enough. Of course they go down in other countries.