I bought byd stock. It keeps going down. I will never understand investing
And I’ve been holding tesla for years and it goes up even when news is shit. I don’t get it either
You never buy an individual firm stock unless you have insider knowledge.
Markets can stay irrational longer than you and I can stay solvent.
Both cars support oppressive dictators, but one is cheaper, supports CarPlay / Android auto, and has actually buttons for things.
I am not sure you can say BYD supports a dictator per se, more like it exists in a state capitalist country where you exist at the behest of the dictator.
Elon actively pushed and spent money to get trump elected.
Well played sir, well played.
This is what I hate. One is owned by a fuck cunt. The other is owned by china. Neither one are actually good options if you are not buying one because of their beliefs
Other options exist; you don’t have to buy either. Volkswagen Group, Audi, Renault, BMW, Fiat etc all make EVs in Europe. Hyundai & Kia also both make excellent EVs.
Buying a Tesla is a choice these days. Nobody trips and falls into Tesla ownership. And although those cheap Chinese manufacturers look mighty tempting, they’re not the only alternative out there.
Though, you don’t want to buy German either if you want to support “good”. VW, Audi, BMW, all German car mafia.
On a side note, Audi and VW are both under the same owner.
Why are German cars a bad choice? I’d rather buy German than get another Citroen tbh.
It’ll probably be based on some silly WW2-era grudge, which I find stupid.
Or Dieselgate, which while awful, despite what the headlines would have you believe, the VW group was far from the only manufacturer with illegally high diesel emissions, in fact, they were far from being the worst.
There are of course other things, VW has started trying to get into the DLC for cars bullshit that others have, but IMO that pales in comparison to Elon’s bullshit or China literally using slave labour.
E: oops, there’s some transparency issues on that Wikipedia graph. Dark mode users may struggle. Here’s the link: Diesel Emissions Scandal
Well, Germany is still actively supporting a genocide, and their car industry is probably supplying a not-insignificant amount of funds for that.
So does a lot of countries, and I am not sure if a car company has anything to do with decisions of politicians.
Pooh bear is actually starting to look less oppressive in comparison these last 7 months tbh
To be fair, the CCP has already done a lot of armed crackdowns and disappearing. They’re in the phase where people are too scared to resist.
Also quite true. They no longer need to use the threat of violence because of the implication
The worrying part is that they kinda seem to be implementing good policies for (at least some of) their people.
There’s a lot of disturbing stuff, and probably a whole lot more that we don’t even know about, but social security, education, healthcare - my impression is that they’re going the right way, while the US looks eager to go back to the Dark ages.
Just with STEM degrees, they’re producing almost 5x more graduates than the US, and they’ve surpassed the number of doctorates a long time ago too.
The current world balance won’t hold one more generation.
I think part of it is that they can actually do anything long-term. Even the most altruistic president in for example the US will get four, at most eight years to do what they’re planning. That’s not enough time to do anything meaningful, all the while they’re dealing with flak from the consequences of the last presidency, and their successor will at best take credit for their achievements, at worst destroy them before they succeed. And that’s assuming the citizens didn’t elect a self-serving megalomaniac.
Winnie the pooh, I’m pretty sure, actually cares about his country. He’s by no means benevolent, but he has the power, resources, and time to build proper infrastructure and reshape the country as he sees fit.
Socially they’re way behind from what I, as an outsider, can tell. Women’s rights at least seem somewhat acceptable with definite room for improvement, but queer rights are even worse. Oh and there’s a literal genocide of Uyghurs so that’s pretty fucking bad.
But the benefits of China’s dictatorship lie in the fact that they can actually think in the long-term and not just until the next election (the politician’s equivalent of the next financial quarter) so they can wield their powers and resources to achieve these goals. The glorious leader must be praised for centuries to come, that can’t happen if the earth becomes uninhabitable due to climate change or the country crumbles in on itself due to failing education and a failing economy.
Now if only that applied to citizen’s rights…
Yeah, I agree with all of your points.
I’m not American, but my understanding of the system is that the long term plan for the country isn’t meant to be set by the president, but by the legislature - passing laws and creating federal bodies that steer the country.
Instead, there’s absolutely no laws being agreed upon, only presidents that try to impose their view for a while until they’re replaced by whoever’s next who then breaks everything.
The courts are then thrown on to the spotlight and asked by the country to fill up a role who’s not actually theirs, and I don’t even want to go into the issues with appointment of judges.
Not that the system in China is any better, they just happen to have a guy who’s ruthless enough to hold onto power with no opposition, and seems to actually care about his country - but he isn’t gonna last for ever, and there’s zero guarantee that the power struggles after he’s gone won’t tear the country to shreds, or that the next up isn’t a fucked up moron like the orange…
They’re in the phase where people are too scared to resist
Source?
Over 90% of Chinese agree that “democracy is important” and 80% agree that their country is democratic? Was this survey conducted in Taiwan and signed as “China” complying with “one China policy”?
I’ve never met any Chinese believing that their country is democratic nor that democracy is important. Quite the opposite - they usually say that China grew thanks to the lack of democracy (never calling it a dictatorship though)
Even the CCP propaganda doesn’t claim that China is the democracy but instead they show the negative sides of the democracies so that people don’t even think that it may be a good idea if China was democratic
Again, asking for any type of source or statistic over anecdotes. Your “observations” go against reputable polling and statistics of people in China.
Was this survey conducted in Taiwan and signed as “China” complying with “one China policy”?
No… in fact this was a Harvard study that started off with “Given how China is an authoritarian nightmare, how widespread is support for the government?”
https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
Well, I must have been super unlucky then as I have talked about it with like 5 different Chinese met at 5 different circumstances
Theres a lot of diverse opinions with chinese people, especially travelers.
Yes… that is not only possible, but likely when n=5…
Please, the original claim was “Chinese people feel coerced”, which is wrong by every metric, and there is no evidence to support this claim.
Although China is certainly not immune from severe social and economic challenges, there is little evidence to support the idea that the CCP is losing legitima- cy in the eyes of its people. In fact, our survey shows that, across a wide variety of metrics, by 2016 the Chi- nese government was more popular than at any point during the previous two decades. On average, Chinese citizens reported that the government’s provision of healthcare, welfare, and other essential public services was far better and more equitable than when the survey began in 2003. Also, in terms of corruption, the drop in satisfaction between 2009 and 2011 was complete- ly erased, and the public appeared generally support- ive of Xi Jinping’s widely-publicized anti-corruption campaign. Even on the issue of the environment, where many citizens expressed dissatisfaction, the majority of respondents expected conditions to improve over the next several years. For each of these issues, China’s poorer, non-coastal residents expressed equal (if not even greater) confidence in the actions of government than more privileged residents. As such, there was no real sign of burgeoning discontent among China’s main demographic groups, casting doubt on the idea that the country was facing a crisis of political legitimacy.
https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
Let me guess: Harvard is tankie?
Trump is definitely headed in China’s direction, but MSNBC is still allowed to exist.
BYD cars don’t have very many buttons either. See here. They’re tablets on wheels too. I quite dislike BYD interiors.
True, but that thing is like a fighter jet compared to Telsa’s void of emptiness. 14 controls on the wheel (and they’re labeled), real controls for drive modes, there are basic climate controls on the center console, you can manually adjust fan orientation, etc.
It’s still overly reliant on touch, but I’d easily take that over a Telsa.
Meh. I would not take either. In fact I actually didn’t. I went to a showroom and got inside their EVs and PHEVs while looking for a car. My immediate reaction after sitting in the driver’s seat of their PHEV was “I don’t want to drive this”. Same thing with the pure EV. I’ll give you the wheel, but those A/C controls next to the “shifter” are touch surfaces instead of actual buttons, and they’re just as annoying and worthless as touchscreen controls. Which is sad because those cars have fantastic stats on paper and very competitive prices. Unfortunately most EVs on the market have fucking stupid interior designs. Very often you have to choose between affordable and well designed. Not very many that are both.
In the end I decided not to buy a new car at all. Still got my 2015 Leon.
Good thing the Tesla board voted to give Elmo all those billions to make him stay, because for a second there was an actual risk that Tesla could survive as a company without Elmo, but now they kept him and made sure they’ll all go down off that cliff.
There is no way I would tickle him!
What if you could use a baseball bat? Maybe with nails in it.
How many nails, and are they rusty and mostly blunt?
Better dunk the whole shebang in raw sewage just to be safe.
How tf does someone with a bajillion dollars look like a pile of wet garbage bags at 54? Aren’t they all supposed to be using lotions made from aardvark assholes and incubus foreskins to maintain immortality?
I’m genuinely surprised people be ok with BYD on Lemmy. It’s authoritarian spyware, period. There are more options than these two - ww don’t have to choose the lesser evil.
Lemmy has always been retarded like that.
Lemmy is weird. As long as you’re on the dogpile against the current “big bad” of the week, you’re good to go. Fuck Tesla? Then let’s buy Chinese products.
It’s insane, but it’s where we are.
It’s authoritarian spyware, period. There are more options than these two - ww don’t have to choose the lesser evil.
Let’s not forget that they are actively committing genocide against the Uighur. I don’t think they are the “lesser evil”.
Or still actively occupy Tibet, how conveniently everyone forgot that but yay a slightly cheaper car!
What, do you want to bring back the theocratic, slave-owning Lamas? I haven’t been to Tibet to as them, but I really doubt the average person wants what you seem to want for them.
Because Tibet never got the chance to transition to a modern country. FYI China invaded in 1950 Oct 6th - at that time big chunk of the world was still theocratic, autocratic and slave owning.
And during the 1950s, the US trained the former slaves owners, gave them weapons, then airdropped them into Tibet to lead an uprising, they were lynched by their former slaves, but even today is still angling to install the Dali Lama as the head of state.
If China said “yall are on your own”, do you think the US would stop doing what it is currently doing, giving money, weapons (when applicable), and diplomatic support to reactionaries who want to return to those days?
Or do you think they would suffer an immediate economic recession without China funding their development?
Country: is literally invaded
Some dude online: but US could have invaded too in some parallel universe!Lmao
They werent invaded, they were liberated. They were invaded by their former masters, with US backing in the 50s.
when compared with elon’s nazi spyware?
There are more than 2 options here.
We’re in a thread that directly compares Tesla and BYD. Thankfully there are other EV manufacturers.
Why would someone who doesn’t live in China give a shit about Chinese spyware, especially when the alternative is any of the big US/EU manufacturers who happily hand your information to your own government?
China can’t do shit to yall. I’d include myself in there, but I quite enjoyed my time in China and intend to return, so Chinese spyware could actually be a threat to me.
Even ignoring that horrendously simple minded reason for not caring about privacy…
You’d still support the CCP lol
Yes? They’ve lifted a billion people out of poverty, produce more green energy than the rest of the world combined, helped fight the Japanese in WWII, I might have my criticisms of the CPC, particularly regarding their lack of support for LGBT+, allowing Shanghai to fuck over zero covid until it had to be abandoned, and some really dumb laws, overall I have to support them because we’ve seen what happens when liberalism triumphs over communism. If you’re lucky, your entire populace is immiserated and you get decades of rightwing dictators robbing the populace blind, see the former USSR, If your not, anyone who isn’t right of Reagan is shot, see Korea and Indonesia.
Do you carry a cell phone?
Is it. I know it’s a Chinese company but is there any evidence that there is anything going on?
Yes it literally phones back every bit of data. What other evidence do you need?
The actual packets would be nice. Since you obviously have that evidence because you’re saying they “literally” do it would you mind providing it?
Here you go:
- https://www.byd.com/en-th/data-privacy
- https://www.koreaherald.com/article/10416925
- https://region.com.au/worst-offenders-respond-to-claims-their-cars-are-spying-on-you/818187/
Do you really think that CCP politely declines this free data? It’s so easy to hide spyware under “anonymous performance telimetry” - didn’t we learn anything from Cabridge Analytica and a billion of other cases? God lord, you people deserve to be spied on.
Spending billions on propaganda simply works.
Cool. Now provide us with sources. Besides buzzword banger articles I haven’t seen hard proof. At least not more than other brands. Meanwhile Tesla has been doing this for training their self driving and we’ve been fine with it. And so do most cars under the norm of telemetry data.
The evidence is in the fact that it’s a Chinese company. They are required by law to provide the government with all the data they collect (and we know they collect data).
Right but has anybody actually run a packet inspector on the data, or even confirm that it is sending packets back and by what method?
Because everybody “knows” China does this but everybody also “knows” that the Facebook app listens to you. As far as I know no evidence has ever been provided of either claim. The evidence is always ooh well I spoke about yoghurts and then 3 days later I had an advert for a yoghurt, which is somewhat unconvincing as conclusive proof.
everybody also “knows” that the Facebook app listens to you
As for China - THIS the bog-standard procedure for any tech-related company when an employee has to travel to China. Give them a burner phone and laptop, zero company data on them, zero access to critical company data, after they return, just throw the gear away.
I honestly don’t now what other proof would you need, when we know them spying on regular people has been happening for decades.
Why would I give a fucking shit? Every new car is a piece of shit spy ware device that collects and sells your data. Honestly, I’d rather china have my data than a fucking capitalist company or America. At least china won’t do anything to me, our government is more of a threat to the average American than china is.
What a defeatist take.
Or… live in a place or advocate for a place where spyware cars arent a necessity for simply existing…
When something is 100% required for life, someone WILL exploit it
Let me guess, the stock did go up?
Today down 1.37%, but up 7.14% overall for the week.
I’m sure the free market knows what’s right /s
And it’s totally not just a rich man’s playground.
Quick Elon, buy the President of Europe! /s
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn’t be any surprise they’re selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I’m immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.
E2: please read up on Predatory Pricing before replying to me.
You should learn about US fossil fuel subsidies. The US alone pumps almost 800 billion/yr into subsidising the industry. Total subsidies worldwide are around 7 trillion/yr.
China tossing 40 Billion/yr into EV/battery subsidies is basically pocket change.
I have no interest in a pissing match over which country is the worst in the world, I am discussing why China is dominating the EV market in Europe.
China spending 1/20 of what the US does to subsidize cars isn’t relevant? Sure thing buddy.
The whole point of all of these “china is only dominating in EV sales due to subsidies” comments is to throw shade on China’s impressive progress in clean tech. A contrast of their subsidies vs other countries in the same space, motor vehicles, is entirely relevant.
I believe main goal of China investing in green tech is to show middle finger to oil and gas producers. China has virtually none of both oil and gas and so is reliant on import. With mostly green cars and electricity from water, sun and wind, they will have much, much better leverage in global say.
I don’t think Musk much cares or ever did. The goal was to milk tesla for every last dime.
He didn’t care so much he bawled on trump’s shoulder and got him to buy one.
That was for show. And not to fix the underlying problems. If he cared, he would actually find and fix the problems.
I don’t get how a company is losing this much in multiple countries yet is still operating?
Like if they can lose this much and still be operating and investments not tanking, would it follow that they can pay better wages and benefits?
Last I checked years ago, they sold their carbon credits for a whole lot of money whenever they earned them.
Yeah Tesla only incidentally makes cars. Their accrual business is being a Carbon Credits dealer. Which just goes to show that the whole concept of carbon credits is nonsense. Climate change can’t be solved by market mechanisms
Come on Canada, let us have cheap BYD, fuck the US economy.
I’m all for fuck the US but don’t you think Canada can make it’s own cars? Being dependent on China’s economy is no better than being dependent on the US or Europe.
nah, forget about them
let us have economical cars because we don’t need these massive expensive things just to go 5km to get a load of groceries
Let us have safe bicycle infrastructure do that we can bike to those stores, how about that? And with that, add mixed constructions in the suburbs so that people have small local stores around.
A bike costs a fraction of a car
Bicycle infrastructure building and maintenance costs a fraction of that for cars
Bicycles don’t emit CO2. And for those wise asses saying that the cyclist does, it’s a fraction of a fraction of a car because you’re not lugging 2 tonnes of stell around to transport you and a bottle of milk.
Cycling infrastructure is much more efficient, you can push a shit tonne more people over the same road if you don’t need big ass cars. Yes, even your Mercedes smart car is I ass compared to a bicycle
It creates much much less pollution from tire dust
It’s much safer, bicycles kill only a fraction of the people that cars kill all year round
It’s healthier, people do exercise not because they went to the gym, but all day every day with their bikes
It cuts the noise pollution
It’s cheaper because no taxes, no gas needed, maintenance is a fraction of that of a car.
It’s way less wasteful
It lowers aggression. Though it may or may not exist, I’ve never heard of bicycle road rage
Need more?
Less cars is less parking spaces. Parking spaces get cities barely any taxable income. Instead of these ugly ass concrete wasteland parkitsoaces you can now have restaurants with outside patios which can be taxed. Couple that with the cheaper infrastructure, and that alone should be an obvious reason as to why do this
It’s really not that much slower. For typical short trips, bicycles usually only add some 10-20% of required time to your trip.
For any trip over say, 5-10 kilometers, use good public transportation
For those once in a lifetime trips where you actually need a car because you need to transport something huge, use one of those Evo rent-a-car.
In the Netherlands, a huge amount of people don’t have a car. Not because they can’t (they totally can) but because it’s stupid to have one. You can go everywhere by bike, you can jump with your bike in a train when needed to go further, cars are expensive and bad for everyone, why even have one?
