OK, I did not know that. FWIW trains run fine here and they are modern. Changing the tracks of the entire country is a - I can’t even guess how many billion project. Meanwhile our current conservative-to-far-right coalition is slashing social security from all sides, and the statistics are not in favor.
So I can’t say I’m a big fan of this right now.
Oh look, the transport minister is one of those nazis in sheep’s clothing.
I hope they get the criticism they deserve, because the timing is clearly chosen to shift attention away from their failures.
Spain uses high speed trains on standard gauge next to slower trains on Iberian gauge, which is also wide. That would be a good way to do it for Finland. Built the Talinn-Helsiniki tunnel and then a standard gauge high speed rail line from Helsinki-Tampere-Oulu as a bases and then it becomes much easier to just change gauge on the slower lines.
The project is backed by multiple ministers and has the support of other Nordic transport ministers, it’s in cooperation with NATO, and the EU will pay for half the project and do 30% of the work. It’s also several years away from being close to starting.
And it has absolutely zero to do with how the trains run or how modern they are, it’s about making a new connection to the rest of Europe for ease of defense. It’s not just about cutting off Russia, it’s about getting tanks and such in by train. As well as having a commercial connection to strengthen trade.
You literally sound like a Russian disinformation actor who wants to hold Finland back.
I’m not against it. They literally said that it’s time to start working on it now, and that’s just wrong. And you literally sound like someone who has no clue about Finnish politics.
As you can probably sense from my replies, I’m directly affected by the cuts this government imposed on all forms of social/health security. And to distract from their deserved dip in polling, they now make a big announcement that is bound to evoke reactions like yours.
The “Russian threat” part of the narrative is exactly what these assholes are riding on (and as others pointed out numerous times in this thread, one of the last reasons for these changes) and you swallow it, because it’s the only thing you know about this area.
Finland has had a land border with a totalitarian, militaristic and expansionist country for 100 years. There’s a constant threat that we constantly deal with (I mean the government/military, not the populace), and train tracks really are the smallest part of it.
@mriswith@lemmy.world It would indeed be great if you could avoid throwing around such accusations. There surely is a time & a place for such but …
From my outsider’s POV, I don’t know if I agree with the argument that this is just a diversion measure. However, politicians regularly perform media-attention sleight of hand of that sort, so it’s imo at least a somewhat credible argument.
If you do notice a pattern, it would be great if you could DM this mod account first.
Thanks!
(This comment written by federal reverse, not anzo.)
The answer is in the first few words of the article, “Finland’s track gauge is the same as Russia’s was in the late 19th and early 20th century— 1,524mm — which is 89mm wider than the European standard.”
Actually Russian gauge is not 1524mm, but 1520mm! Finland has unique gauge not used anywhere else in the World, although that 4mm difference allows most bogies to be compatible with both of them, international trains can run through the border without bogie exchange.
So the point of the article is right, butnot perfect in details. I love trains.
There was no question in my comment. The answer to your question is in my comment. It really isn’t that hard to understand.
Finland doesn’t have much of a rail network, and the only international connection over land used to be to St Petersburg. If Estonia & Sweden & the big ferry companies are on board it would be nice to change gauge evtl., to have freight waggons come across the ferries.
But I don’t like that our practically failed government uses this to raise its prestige while every statistic shows that their stupid austerity measures a) save way too little money and b) fuck up the country and its people.
So when our far-right anti-social government says “now is the right time for Finland to start work on changing the gauge” I disagree.
I too agree this might not be worth the investment, although I don’t know how many connections there are with Sweden, Norway and the rest of EU by ferry.
None! Partly because of geography, partly, I guess, precisely because of this difference. Would be nice to see more freight trains instead of trucks coming from the ferries but again, this government has systematically fucked over the little people to save a few hundred million euros, I’d like them to fix that first thankyouverymuch.
Oh and look what the same transport minister said just over a year ago:
On 8 February 2024, Finnish Minister of Transport and Communications Lulu Ranne told Estonian daily Postimees that the tunnel is “unrealistic” and not on the agenda of the government, with the project remaining on hold unless further funding is provided by the European Union.
OK, I did not know that. FWIW trains run fine here and they are modern. Changing the tracks of the entire country is a - I can’t even guess how many billion project. Meanwhile our current conservative-to-far-right coalition is slashing social security from all sides, and the statistics are not in favor.
So I can’t say I’m a big fan of this right now.
Oh look, the transport minister is one of those nazis in sheep’s clothing.
I hope they get the criticism they deserve, because the timing is clearly chosen to shift attention away from their failures.
Spain uses high speed trains on standard gauge next to slower trains on Iberian gauge, which is also wide. That would be a good way to do it for Finland. Built the Talinn-Helsiniki tunnel and then a standard gauge high speed rail line from Helsinki-Tampere-Oulu as a bases and then it becomes much easier to just change gauge on the slower lines.
The project is backed by multiple ministers and has the support of other Nordic transport ministers, it’s in cooperation with NATO, and the EU will pay for half the project and do 30% of the work. It’s also several years away from being close to starting.
And it has absolutely zero to do with how the trains run or how modern they are, it’s about making a new connection to the rest of Europe for ease of defense. It’s not just about cutting off Russia, it’s about getting tanks and such in by train. As well as having a commercial connection to strengthen trade.
You literally sound like a Russian disinformation actor who wants to hold Finland back.
I’m not against it. They literally said that it’s time to start working on it now, and that’s just wrong. And you literally sound like someone who has no clue about Finnish politics.
As you can probably sense from my replies, I’m directly affected by the cuts this government imposed on all forms of social/health security. And to distract from their deserved dip in polling, they now make a big announcement that is bound to evoke reactions like yours.
The “Russian threat” part of the narrative is exactly what these assholes are riding on (and as others pointed out numerous times in this thread, one of the last reasons for these changes) and you swallow it, because it’s the only thing you know about this area.
Finland has had a land border with a totalitarian, militaristic and expansionist country for 100 years. There’s a constant threat that we constantly deal with (I mean the government/military, not the populace), and train tracks really are the smallest part of it.
Sheesh.
Please remove the insult, thanks.
OK, removed. However; calling me a Russian disinformation actor is insulting, too.
@mriswith@lemmy.world It would indeed be great if you could avoid throwing around such accusations. There surely is a time & a place for such but …
Thanks!
(This comment written by federal reverse, not anzo.)
The answer is in the first few words of the article, “Finland’s track gauge is the same as Russia’s was in the late 19th and early 20th century— 1,524mm — which is 89mm wider than the European standard.”
So again, why is it that you oppose this change?
deleted by creator
Actually Russian gauge is not 1524mm, but 1520mm! Finland has unique gauge not used anywhere else in the World, although that 4mm difference allows most bogies to be compatible with both of them, international trains can run through the border without bogie exchange.
So the point of the article is right, butnot perfect in details. I love trains.
However, as the text says “early 20th century”, 1524 mm was the nominal gauge of soviet/russian railways until the 1970s.
There was no question in my comment. The answer to your question is in my comment. It really isn’t that hard to understand.
Finland doesn’t have much of a rail network, and the only international connection over land used to be to St Petersburg. If Estonia & Sweden & the big ferry companies are on board it would be nice to change gauge evtl., to have freight waggons come across the ferries.
But I don’t like that our practically failed government uses this to raise its prestige while every statistic shows that their stupid austerity measures a) save way too little money and b) fuck up the country and its people.
So when our far-right anti-social government says “now is the right time for Finland to start work on changing the gauge” I disagree.
There is also a rail connection with Sweden, which use standard gauge.
Anyway the work would start 2030 at the earliest. So this is an announcment of creating plans to do it, which is cheap.
I too agree this might not be worth the investment, although I don’t know how many connections there are with Sweden, Norway and the rest of EU by ferry.
None! Partly because of geography, partly, I guess, precisely because of this difference. Would be nice to see more freight trains instead of trucks coming from the ferries but again, this government has systematically fucked over the little people to save a few hundred million euros, I’d like them to fix that first thankyouverymuch.
Currently, they are planning a tunnel from Helsinki to Tallinn.
Wikipedia – Helsinki Tallinn Tunnel
This tunnel is basically a meme and I will believe it when I see it.
Oh and look what the same transport minister said just over a year ago:
That was before their ratings went down.